Today we look at some fun water cooling fluid

[Bulldog]

Today we look at some fun water cooling fluid, Feser One Non Conductive Fluid.

SNIP:

For this review, we are going to pay attention to the fluid portion of a water cooling setup. Today we have Feser One's Non Conductive fluid to look at. Feser also has 10 different colors of fluid for users to really customize the look of their water cooling setups even more. We are going to do a comparison to our ever faithful winterized washer fluid, and compare the Feser One fluid to distilled water. Finally, the mad scientist in me will push things to the absolute limit. We are going to verify if the Feser One fluid is actually non-conductive.

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1704

[slayer]

i been using that stuff for a couple years now... tis the best i have seen

[Admin]

you tried any of the others? homebrews even?

[slayer]

tried antifreeze once ... worked quite well

[Admin]

yeah antifreeze at 10% works well, seen ethanol used, a host of stuff from taiwan I cant even imagine working and one good one was coolant they use on lathes in the motor industry.. that contains bacteria that absorb the heat..

seen a host of dyes used with it to make it glow/radiate light...

what you need is a heat transfer jelly :cool:

[Wizard]

A few of the regulars know I've been in the watercooling game for almost a decade now. I've tested several different water additives over the course of years, and had an article on the subject for OCWizard in the works (just about ready to publish).

The best watercooling additive solution I've encountered is Water Wetter, which provides all of the necessary (and desired) attributes. Speaking in general terms (and for those who may not know), these are defined below.
First, you want an anti-surfactant, which reduces surface tension of the water, allowing improved flow. Better flow = better cooling.
Second, you want an anti-fungal agent. No matter how de-ionized/distilled/pure the water is, there will be impurities to be found, even upon it's initial introduction into the system. This cannot be avoided. Therefore, an anti-fungal agent is necessary to prevent unwanted growth.
Third, you need an anti-corrosion agent. Galvanic corrosion is a terrible thing, and will occur (to some extent) in whatever system you use. The idea is to minimize the amount of galvanic corrosion that takes place. Therefore, all water blocks should be of like metals (all copper, or all aluminum). Remember, NEVER use both aluminum and copper blocks within the same circuit. They tend to be near the opposite ends of the galvanic spectrum - and as such, both of them together will greatly accelerate galvanic corrosion within a watercooled system.
Lastly, you want an additive that isn't going to inhibit flow, nor hamper the innate thermal conductive properties of the water itself - because that is what (ultimately) is the key to reducing heat, after all.
For primarily these last two reasons, I've advised hundreds (if not thousands) of people to never use propylene or ethylene glycols as their additive. In short, Anti-freeze is just bad. Yet people still use it, in the same manner that they use Prime95 as a testing app.
Any glycol that is introduced is a syrupy mixture that will inhibit flow, and reduce thermal conductivity of the solution. For reference purposes:

(W/m K) - measured at 300K, which is 26.85C or 80.33F.
Propylene Glycol: 0.147
Ethylene Glycol: 0.258
Fresh Water: 0.609
(these values were taken from the Engineer's Toolbox website)

Similar values for thermal conductivity for pertinent materials can be found on the Koolance website, here:
http://www.koolance.com/technical/cooling101/002.html
Please note that Ethanol is even worse than Glycol or Methanol based solutions. The only one that comes close to water is Flourinert.

Now, some would like to argue that specific heat capacity is raised by using anti-freeze. Yet the counterpoint is that your PC isn't a car - the temps will never be high enough throughout the entire system to warrant such a property. And unless you keep your PC in a freezer, you certainly won't need the anti-freezing properties of glycol, either. Therefore, we can safely and easily throw the arguments for using glycol-based additives out the window.

Now, there are other additives that like to boast a particular trait - the most commonly advertised being "electrical inert" (non-conductive). FluidXP+ and Feser's (above) are just a couple additives to focus on this, but there are plenty more out there.
De-ionization (eg de-ionized water) will reduce much of the thermal conductivity of the water - but not all of it - yes, it is still conductive.
Water is also a solvent. As water passes through the system, it will pick up impurities, in addition to ions from any metal surface contacted (cupric ions, etc.).
This is why a good dielectric additive is imperative for any watercooled environment.
Speaking from first-hand experience: I've had a leak from a CPU block spill cooling solution (de-ionized water with 1/64 Water Wetter) onto a live graphics card. The slow leak caused a pool there for several days, before I noticed the level drop in the resevoir.
I'm still using that graphics card today (in another machine, of course - it's now a little antiquated). Yet the fact remains that Water Wetter rendered the cooling solution electrically inert.

Wow, I do tend to go on and on, don't I...? lol
Well, I'll cut it short here - Remember, just say "NO" to glycol!
:thumbs:

[Admin]

I think thats a great article and comparison

Thank you for that one bro!!

[Wizard]

Thanks, bro' - this is one of those particular subjects that I could on for days about (and I think I actually have in the past, at various sites).

Come to think of it, I didn't even really comment on the review itself...
lol

Ah well, we all know what I'll say on that...
I've actually liked B3D as a site - they've always seemed to be pretty accurate on their reviews, for the most part. Yet they've also known (in the past) what the boundaries of temperature measurement were (where not to cross), and the difference between a good/bad waterblock...
Unfortunately, in this review the temperature measurement is like most other reviews - inaccurate (for various reasons).
They also use a Koolance block, which unfortunately aren't known (within watercooling circles) as "efficient" blocks - yet perhaps I'm just being knit-picky there.
;)
Another thing I'm not too sure about is why he underclocked his CPU, prior to establishing load - and whether or not that load was maintained over his 12hrs. of flushing each solution through his system... And is 12hrs. really enough time to measure the effectiveness of a water additive? How thoroughly was the system flushed, exactly? Ah, so many questions...
But what I find really funny here is the claim that windshield washer fluid had the lowest temps, even though anyone who knows physics could readily attest that alcohol/methanol/ammonium windshield washing compounds are all well-known to be worse for thermal conductivity than water itself.
In short, his numbers are clearly way off - and this is most likely due to the inferior methodology and equipment used in the testing process.
Sorry B3D, you failed to impress on this one.

Feser One might be a good product, but I surely wouldn't purchase it based upon this review. In fact, an ignorant novice to the world of watercooling might be inclined to just use windshield washer fluid (which is just as bad of an idea as using glycol). This is one review that probably shouldn't have been published without having some editors with experience go over everything first.

Anyway, I'll /rant here... :thumbs:

[Bulldog]

Wizard is your water wetter sold at auto parts stores? I use a "Water Wetter" sold at my local supply house, its original use was to add to auto radiators guaranteed to lower car temps by a minimum of 20ºF It worked in a car I was trying to make run cooler and about 8 years ago I put it in a system for a PC. If your using same stuff do you run it straight ( I have heard of guys doing this) or mix at what % and I see by your post your still using de-ionized water.

If so have you seen this?
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/product/RedLineSuperCoolwithWaterWetter/Red_Line_Water_Wetter

Supposed to be new and improved version

A M8 has told me this is better in his PC his "better" is based on once I clocked it and had it stable with WW..he flushed system and added this and swears it running about 8ºF colder for well over 50 days.

http://www.engineice.cc/faq.html

And I have heard their is another product that comes in a tin "Mineral Spirits" type can..that is quite good also..and some racers say it was the orignal product that reduced temps.

[Wizard]

Yeah, Bulldog - mine was the same stuff as sold in Auto Parts stores. I haven't tried the new stuff, though...
And to be honest, I'd be just a little worried about a 'heavy' ratio in the solution. Now for a car, that would probably work alright - but as we all know, a PC isn't a car (temps are nowhere near the range) - and so a need for the additive (especially in any sort of heavy ratio) just isn't nearly as great.
I guess you could call me a "purist" - Because 'pure' water (de-ionized/distilled) is considered the best medium for heat transfer, I would minimize the amount of additive used.
Perhaps we should put this into perspective - Less is actually more, in the case of additives.
However, the manufacturers will want you to use more of their product, of course - that's cash in their pockets.
But when it comes down to what you need in a watercooled PC environment, it's just a few basic things:
Anti-fungal agent
Anti-corrosion agent
Anti-surfactant (which is actually a bonus).
So (personally), I would only use a 1/64 mixture of Water Wetter and "pure" water. It was just enough to prevent all the bad stuff from happening (like fungal growth, galvanic corrosion), and improve flow (due to the anti-surfactant).
:thumbs:

Engine Ice looks to be a Propylene Glycol product - which is safer (less toxic) than Ethylene Glycol, but it unfortunately suffers from inferior thermal conductivity and a thicker viscosity (which will inhibit flow).
For example, let's examine the figure taken from the very same site you linked.
Thermal Conductivity W/m-K at 90C: 0.34
Now in terms of transferring heat, that's about half as effective as water. Furthermore, that value is approximated at 90C...!
If a PC watercooled circuit is running that hot, then my friend, you've got other problems, eh?
lol
So at a 'normal' temp, I'm willing to wager that the thermal conductivity rate for Engine Ice is even worse - most probably a value that's close to 0.147 (as listed for Propylene Glycol in the prior post).
Additionally, we've all seen anti-freeze's syrupy texture. Now think about what the added stress of that viscosity will be doing for your pump/parts. If you'll recall from years past, oil-immersion systems always tended to burn through circulating fans - because case fans aren't meant to handle that kind of load/resistance. The motors would just burn up, and rather quickly for that matter.
Now, most pumps are (generally speaking) better equipped to handle that kind of load - but why would we want to depreciate the pump's lifespan if we didn't have to? Ah, something to think about...

I also don't recall seeing whether Engine Ice is an anti-surfactant or not - and this has always been yet another point for us to consider. If the additive isn't an anti-surfactant, then suface tension of the water isn't reduced - flow is not improved, it is hampered.
Since we're operating at just above room temps, that goopy glycol may actually eddy or worse, gunk up your system (pump/rad/block(s), etc.).
This is why I always tell people, just say "NO" to glycols!

Hope this helps, bro'!

[Bulldog]

1/64 hmmmmm I will give that a try:thumbs: I am using 70% de-ionized water and 30% WW original formula. most others I run across are at 50/50 or higher your right in assuming most think "more" is better.

On my Bucket list :eek: is to really try Fluorinert if its good enough for cray its good enough for me.

[Admin]

There does seem to be a saturation point where it is to much and pointless only inhibiting effective cooling, and also a point where some people run it so lean it wont work effectively. Yet they dont listen to advice, I dont think the mix is the problem sometimes, its the simple advice on the subject.

[Wizard]

Couldn't agree more, guys - I'd advise anyone to test it at various mix ratios, and see what works best for your particular environment. Who knows, you might need a little more than 1/64 ratio.
The type and amount of metal surface present within your circuit, the kind (and even length) of tubing, along with a few other factors will determine the strength of the additive you need. But 1/64 is a great place to start (and where I've been able to effectively leave off).
:thumbs:

[Admin]

at least with that ratio you can try a bit more water or additive and see how it runs.. you can then get it fine tuned to your needs. You cant beat quality tubing, neat joints, slow sweeping curves and a good wall structure to allow water to flow and maintain pressure.